tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post1431442801560123487..comments2024-03-29T03:04:00.853-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: One thing I ask of you: no fine talk - Turgenev's next generationAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77641405044959870012013-12-10T15:14:30.916-06:002013-12-10T15:14:30.916-06:00Without the What Happened Next, Fathers and Sons w...Without the What Happened Next, <i>Fathers and Sons</i> would not seem especially political.<br /><br />Yet this aesthete is also the author of the <i>Uncle Tom's Cabin</i> of serfdom, <i>A Sportsman's Sketches</i>. That book does not appear to be remotely political, yet it became a key part of the case against the system of serfs.<br /><br />Russia, Russian literature - a different world.<br /><br />All the men in the novel are in love with that maid.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-66301136788879490902013-12-10T12:58:00.823-06:002013-12-10T12:58:00.823-06:00The structure of Turgenev's novels is very un-...The <i>structure</i> of Turgenev's novels is very un-Russian, very tightly knit in the manner of Flaubert. What I remember about <i>Fathers and Sons</i> is less the politics (I think <i>On the Eve</i> is more deeply felt in the way of politcs, maybe) than the formal balance of the narrative, and the excellent way the naturalist writing shapes itself around the story and characters. There's a bit about horses and chickens on the road, maybe the arrival of the son and his nihilist friend, that's quite good. And some stuff about the land surrounding the farm is really exquisiste, too. Beautiful writing throughout.<br /><br />I remember being fond of the uncle, and I have a suspicion that the uncle is the closest thing in <i>Fathers and Sons</i> to a stand-in for Turgenev. Isn't the uncle in love with a serf housemaid? Didn't Turgenev father a child on a young serf? Not that I like to read fiction as a form of the author's biography or anything.<br /><br />I have not read the Chernyshevsky so I'll have to sit down soon and read the Turgenev, the Chernyshevsky and <i>Notes</i> all in a row, to see what the row was. I have <i>Summer in Baden-Baden</i> sitting on my to-be-read stack even now. Maybe after the T/Ch/D trifecta I'll see about that one.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-43902507191837473952013-12-10T11:29:24.171-06:002013-12-10T11:29:24.171-06:00Turgenev and Dostoevsky knew each other well. The...Turgenev and Dostoevsky knew each other well. The world of these intellectuals and artists (in Russia, at least) was so small.<br /><br />Leonid Tsypkin's novel <i>Summer in Baden-Baden</i> includes a brilliant fictionalized version of one of their real meetings. It is excruciating. Dostoevsky cannot overcome his resentment of Turgenev. A wonderful scene.<br /><br />Turgenev was the best Russian available for the French writers - perhaps the only one who would fit in their scene at all - but he was not quite what Flaubert of James thought he was.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-60967561786760383202013-12-10T10:23:28.013-06:002013-12-10T10:23:28.013-06:00Probably a stupid question: did Turgenev and Dosto...Probably a stupid question: did Turgenev and Dostoevsky (my favorite) meet?Shelleyhttp://dustbowlstory.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-596366779495544372013-12-10T10:06:23.788-06:002013-12-10T10:06:23.788-06:00Just to clarify, because I highly respect Sontag, ...Just to clarify, because I highly respect Sontag, her work and her life choices, let me add that she didn't comply with the wishes of her older romantic partner at the time and remained uncorrupted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-37859819300096352622013-12-10T09:52:25.085-06:002013-12-10T09:52:25.085-06:00There's a level of subservience required to b...There's a level of subservience required to become a beta wolf that is problematic. Susan Sontag wrote about how once, when she was very young, her older alpha she-wolf tried to corrupt her by having her sleep around with random men (and the two women were engaged on a romantic relationship at the time!). Turgenev was so needy of acceptance from his French clique that he would go to extremes. Once, after having undergone an operation, he labored for hours to find 'la sentence juste' to describe his experience to his French friends: the scalpel cutting through his flesh felt like a dull knife cutting through an unpeeled banana.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-90826790854611678352013-12-09T22:36:15.245-06:002013-12-09T22:36:15.245-06:00The Superfluous Men are not nihilists but idealist...The Superfluous Men are not nihilists but idealists. Usually failed idealists, making them perfect Chekhov types. That doctor is <i>Uncle Vanya</i>, for example, is of all things an environmentalist!<br /><br />But maybe Bazarov's nihilism is also a form of idealism. This gets into interpretation.<br /><br />Chekhov's comedy is deeper than Turgenev's. No question of that.<br /><br />Miguel, see what you think of the passages that will be in my next post, whenever that might be. I am not a Garnett-basher, but she can't be good at translating <i>everyone</i>.<br /><br />Now o is going to operate a big Russian Challenge in 2014, always a good idea, exactly for the reasons I am talking about here. There is a huge diversity of work available in English, but there can be a <i>coherence</i> to Russian literature that is fun to pursue. So for example variations of ideas or characters from Turgenev pop up in Chekhov, Bely, Pasternak, and onward. And the act of creating literature is always so <i>important</i>.<br /><br />Isaiah Berlin's <i>Russian Thinkers</i> is helping me clarify my thoughts, or else is muddling them beyond hope with too many new ideas. He addresses, for example, Turgenev's relationship with French literature and writers. Zola is only mentioned once, as part of Turgenev's circle (o is also working on an ambitious Zola project).Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-33621644969968531922013-12-09T18:13:55.701-06:002013-12-09T18:13:55.701-06:00Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard is populated with...Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard is populated with quite a few "superfluous" people. Perhaps only Firs (the abandoned servant) and Lopakhin (the new owner of the cherry orchard) escape that indictment. At least both of those characters have offered solutions for the future of the estate. All other characters offer nothing to the future of the society. However, unlike Turgenev, I think, Chekhov puts his incomparable comic "spin" on the nihilism of this characters. Perhaps, though, that is both an unfair and too simple comparison. Clearly, I need to read more Turgenev. Thanks for the inducement.R.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13220814349193561823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-72898076254706660062013-12-09T16:52:29.146-06:002013-12-09T16:52:29.146-06:00This is sounding a lot funnier than I remember; pe...This is sounding a lot funnier than I remember; perhaps I just read the wrong translation, Constance Garnett's English is perhaps too serious and dreary for the subtle humor of the Russians.<br /><br />All this talk about Russians is getting me anxious to read one of them again.LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-43394415776921299122013-12-09T16:08:06.343-06:002013-12-09T16:08:06.343-06:00This is a very interesting post. I'm wanting t...This is a very interesting post. I'm wanting to get into Turgenev a lot more next year, partly, I have to admit, I'm curious of because his association with Émile Zola. I've read a few a long time ago, but aiming to re-read Home of the Gentry and Fathers and Sons.ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01245931629228090133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-27612191262517082152013-12-09T08:23:59.307-06:002013-12-09T08:23:59.307-06:00Bazarov is a great character. Great in the literar...Bazarov is a great character. Great in the literary sense, and possbily great in a "great man" sense. Supremely confident. Arrogant. Sometimes a huge jerk. But also sometimes visibly young, almost adolescent. Always checking his phone.<br /><br />My God, he's a Millennial.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-18018893402902373822013-12-09T07:47:05.590-06:002013-12-09T07:47:05.590-06:00Ah, nihilism and arbitrariness--two of my favorite...Ah, nihilism and arbitrariness--two of my favorite literary religions. Time for me to get back to the Russians soon! Love how "with indescribable composure" provides such an in-your-face slam dunk at the end of that initial Bazarov sequence. Such a fine (and non-arbitrary) choice of words for such a humble-seeming three-word description, no?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.com