tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post5078219076438895130..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: dirty crockadillapigs and three other ways of walking, each with a difference of one letter - Fāris al-Shidyāq's Leg over Leg, or the novelist as lexicographerAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-35896196127827451132015-02-27T11:25:32.874-06:002015-02-27T11:25:32.874-06:00Excellent.Excellent.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-61222350173045038632015-02-27T08:16:49.831-06:002015-02-27T08:16:49.831-06:00Ghalib's poems are wonderful cribs to concoct ...Ghalib's poems are wonderful cribs to concoct poetry from: his sentences are bursting with meaning(s). It's a lot of fun to write variations on chosen lines from his ghazals<br /><br />I'm leaving this world. And all I get to take with me<br />Is a T-Shirt that reads: I deserved a better life.<br /><br />I'm leaving this world. Like the others, I've been branded<br />By the hot iron of unfulfilled desire: I deserved a better life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77138145857648388712015-02-26T21:21:10.420-06:002015-02-26T21:21:10.420-06:00You are working in an honorable tradition, fixing ...You are working in an honorable tradition, fixing up those plain prose trots. What wonderful creative work.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-60420773690455775502015-02-26T20:41:18.767-06:002015-02-26T20:41:18.767-06:00Your longing to know what was in the Arabic rang a...Your longing to know what was in the Arabic rang a bell with me as I've been working on writing some very loose versions of ghazals by Ghalib- they have to be very loose because all I have apart from the beautiful-looking and unreadable script are distinctly plodding prose translations, e.g "I go/depart. taking with me the scars of my unfulfilled desire to have lived (better, longer, in a better condition or time)". The prosiness makes it clear the untranslatable nature of the thought, so yes, what can a writer do but try to reproduce the same effect using the resources of his own language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-47948816231798336322015-02-25T16:29:21.989-06:002015-02-25T16:29:21.989-06:00Doug, thanks for the link - that's madness, th...Doug, thanks for the link - that's madness, the good kind.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-12060128421278944512015-02-25T16:28:28.544-06:002015-02-25T16:28:28.544-06:00I actually read Donald Frame's Rabelais, which...I actually read <a href="http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520064010" rel="nofollow">Donald Frame's Rabelais</a>, which is wonderful, but more worried about accuracy and similar mundane stuff than Urquhart.<br /><br />I have read a lot of Frame - his Rabelais, Montaigne, Moliere, and a few other things. One of the greats. Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-12639413430089882942015-02-25T16:09:40.759-06:002015-02-25T16:09:40.759-06:00Thanks. Is that the Rabelais you read?
I am think...Thanks. Is that the Rabelais you read?<br /><br />I <i>am</i> thinking of getting my Gargantua, but can't decide on the right translation. There's the modernone by M. A. Screech, a 1955 one by J. M. Cohen; and now this Urquhart fellow, although I read he didn't finish the translation. I don't know what to do do.LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77799096746245727302015-02-25T11:01:33.866-06:002015-02-25T11:01:33.866-06:00You can find Urquhart's "Logopandecteisio...You can find Urquhart's "Logopandecteision" online. I've just glanced through it a bit, but it seems to be a burlesque proposal for an overly elaborate artificial language (it will, he promises, have eleven genders), with frequent digressions to shower invective on his creditors. It looks like fun, although rather strange fun: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/urquhart/index.html<br /><br />I wouldn't say that Urquhart improved on Rabelais; he did make him sound convincingly English, which would seem to be impossible. Doug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-12019329494580533972015-02-24T21:40:02.911-06:002015-02-24T21:40:02.911-06:00!!! It never occurred to me to look for any Urquh...!!! It never occurred to me to look for any Urquhart besides his Rabelais. What a good idea. Responsible for the Admirable Crichton! Amazing.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-20255414743942102552015-02-24T20:48:42.496-06:002015-02-24T20:48:42.496-06:00The admirable Urquhart: selected writings, edited ...The admirable Urquhart: selected writings, edited by Richard Boston, has a brief biography and some of Urquhart's writings, including the first account of The Admirable Crichton. Urquhart is also a character in The Laird of Cromarty by Jean-Pierre Ohl, but I've yet to read that.Roger Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012987757094423896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-67643864119430816322015-02-24T14:42:14.766-06:002015-02-24T14:42:14.766-06:00Thomas Urquhart, 17th century translator of Rabela...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Urquhart" rel="nofollow">Thomas Urquhart</a>, 17th century translator of Rabelais. A perfect match of text and translator. This is Gargantua's codpiece:<br /><br />"And, like to that horn of abundance, it was still gallant, succulent, droppy, sappy, pithy, lively, always flourishing, always fructifying, full of juice, full of flower, full of fruit, and all manner of delight. I avow God, it would have done one good to have seen him, but I will tell you more of him in the book which I have made of the dignity of codpieces. One thing I will tell you, that as it was both long and large, so was it well furnished and victualled within, nothing like unto the hypocritical codpieces of some fond wooers and wench-courtiers, which are stuffed only with wind, to the great prejudice of the female sex."<br /><br />This is Rabelais via Urquhart, but it sounds exactly like al-Shidyaq via Davies. For the English language, it has all been downhill since the 17th century.<br /><br />Scott, that translator has the right idea.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-56676400019170371362015-02-24T14:23:41.691-06:002015-02-24T14:23:41.691-06:00Who's this Urquhart? Yahoo just returns me a c...Who's this Urquhart? Yahoo just returns me a castle in Scotland...?LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-67761464526632019452015-02-24T13:36:54.978-06:002015-02-24T13:36:54.978-06:00Wow. What Miguel said. I recently attended a talk ...Wow. What Miguel said. I recently attended a talk by a translator who, when asked what he wanted to translate next, mentioned several books that had already been translated, but blandly. seraillonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654593356535433945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-3497773074539799832015-02-24T09:01:58.770-06:002015-02-24T09:01:58.770-06:00Definitely Rabelais, definitely Urquhart. Someday ...Definitely Rabelais, definitely Urquhart. Someday I should try to read Urquhart, the whole thing, not just passages.<br /><br />You must be right about the Arabic. Thus Davies's decision to describe the Arabic text rather than "translate" it. What else can he do?Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-90242023549672457942015-02-23T23:12:46.397-06:002015-02-23T23:12:46.397-06:00You and Michael Orthover both refer to Sterne as a...You and Michael Orthover both refer to Sterne as an influence on al-Shidyāq; it's likely that Rabelais is another, given the linguistic inventiveness of the book. I can't help but wonder if Davies has followed the example of Urquhart and improved the original in its own spirit. Given that some vowels are omitted in written Arabic, perhaps "word after word with one letter changed, all of which, Davies insists, are treated as exact synonyms in every dictionary" because they are all exact synonyms- even the same word!Roger Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012987757094423896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-23221759869184003372015-02-23T21:17:36.348-06:002015-02-23T21:17:36.348-06:00Yes, it is a 700 or 800 page book in total, not 1,...Yes, it is a 700 or 800 page book in total, not 1,600 pages. That would be exhausting.<br /><br />The Davies books are masterpieces of translation. Anyone who doubts that translation is an art worthy of its own attention should look at <i>Leg over Leg</i>. Actually, those are just the people on whom it would be wasted, so never mind.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-67595975143314470212015-02-23T17:34:13.190-06:002015-02-23T17:34:13.190-06:00Amazing! I'm glad you've returned to this ...Amazing! I'm glad you've returned to this novel; also glad to know it's bilingual, that means 4 volumes is really just 2, which is more palatable. It is a pity when so much wordplay is lost in translation, but that's the price to pay to write about language. Nowadays I read so much written in a bland international style clearly screaming to be translated. LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.com