tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post54935242828150107..comments2024-03-29T03:04:00.853-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: The French are all lovers (the French are all crazy) - the carefully hidden homosexual subtext of The ImmoralistAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-32269462095302611792011-03-29T22:16:57.271-05:002011-03-29T22:16:57.271-05:00Anna, thanks for that. Said is partly right, cert...Anna, thanks for that. Said is partly right, certainly. But what a reduction of a complex work of art.<br /><br />Just one example: part of what Michel finds in Tunisia is that the boys have (or he imagines they have) an autonomy and independence that he feels he lacks, that he wants for himself. A scene in which he watches a boy steal a pair of his wife's scissors is key - Michel's first transgressive thrill, a preview of his later theft of rabbits from himself.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-33051317470957284712011-03-29T20:22:09.890-05:002011-03-29T20:22:09.890-05:00Said says (essentially) that this text is represen...Said says (essentially) that this text is representative of the desire for Western powers to travel to an Eastern (or exotic) place and derive benefit from the place without allowing the Other autonomy or independence. He refers to the triangular relationship between Michel, Menalque, and Moktir as a hierarchical one, with Moktir at the bottom. I haven't read Gide myself so I am going off critical response. I think your analysis of this passage is provocative to say the least.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00961332983813359209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-91035027006133223282011-03-28T23:25:51.391-05:002011-03-28T23:25:51.391-05:00An earlier book (Les nourritures terrestres, 1895)...An earlier book (<i>Les nourritures terrestres</i>, 1895) uses virtually identical materials - North African boys, a Wilde-like mentor named Menalque, etc. So - good question!<br /><br />On the other hand, boy, did Gide write a lot of books. Who knows what one might find in them. Someone please read them all and report back.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-88181371967334754802011-03-28T23:10:25.271-05:002011-03-28T23:10:25.271-05:00Gide does this (the framing/ subtle homoerotic rel...Gide does this (the framing/ subtle homoerotic relationships) in Les faux-monnayeurs, too. Did he actually write more than one novel, I'm beginning to wonder?Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00251983804060081813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-40607537074013430932011-03-28T20:59:52.310-05:002011-03-28T20:59:52.310-05:00Not Tunis, exactly. The novel moves around a lot....Not Tunis, exactly. The novel moves around a lot. Paris to Tunisia, with a long convalesence in a town in the interior (Biskra). Back to Paris, with some additional episodes on Michel's farm in Normandy. Then, as the novel winds down, we retrace the path back to Biskra. Stops in Sicily are crucial to both trips, thus the Italian.<br /><br />Michel's interest in the dark-skinned Tunisian boys is Orientalist, certainly, but it's also a bit of a trap - he's also attracted to Sicilians (differently dark-skinned) and Normans (not at all dark-skinned - but this is another historical link back to Sicily, isn't it?).<br /><br />The sex tourism, such as it is, is part of the story. Michel has to get away from Paris to indulge himself, whatever it is he's doing, and in the end he seems to want to escape back to where he experienced his first taste of freedom.<br /><br />What did Said write?<br /><br />Vince - so cynical! Yes, my guess is that some, maybe all, of the possibilities I imagined are unresolvable. A good reader will juggle them all.<br /><br />I haven't read <i>Death in Venice</i> for 20 years, and I don't think I read it particularly well, so I'd better not opine on your question. Gide's novel certainly looks like an ancestor, or at least a kindly uncle, of Mann's.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-90426974410771241482011-03-28T20:36:23.949-05:002011-03-28T20:36:23.949-05:00Hi A.R.
I think Gide’s intention was to be intent...Hi A.R.<br /><br />I think Gide’s intention was to be intentionally ambiguous. Doing this well has a way of making an author seem more profound than he really is. <br /><br />Here’s my question for you, if you have an opinion, “Do you think there would have been a <i>“Death in Venice”</i> if Gide had not written <i>"The Immoralist"</i>? I have my doubts.<br /><br /> VinceVincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-9619495409156688562011-03-28T18:03:39.871-05:002011-03-28T18:03:39.871-05:00I am reminded of Said's criticism of this work...I am reminded of Said's criticism of this work and the context of imperialism. I suppose because the dialogue was in Italian I assumed this work took place in Florence, but upon rereading your post I see it's in Tunis. What is your impression of the touristic atmosphere (or not) of the novel? Does being a tourist impact Michael's homosexual desires in one way or another?Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00961332983813359209noreply@blogger.com