tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post6346129021329072232..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: What novelist, what Fielding, what Scott, can impart an interest to the last chapter of his fictitious history?Amateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-10244060793543868672011-03-07T09:12:41.733-06:002011-03-07T09:12:41.733-06:00Welcome, new commenter! First, see this post. I&...Welcome, new commenter! First, see <a href="http://wutheringexpectations.blogspot.com/2009/06/one-sat-looking-at-his-task-in-stony.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>. I'm <i>way</i> ahead of you.<br /><br />Second, <i>Barchester Towers</i> was a three-volume novel, not a serial.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-32404508409897601412011-03-07T01:05:51.267-06:002011-03-07T01:05:51.267-06:00Try reading Trollope one chapter at a time with a ...Try reading Trollope one chapter at a time with a fortnight in between chapters, as the readers at the time might have encountered it; makes his prolixity understandable. You can't expect your readers to keep a year old magazine open in front of them cross-referencing all the time. In fact that method makes even Dickens seem tolerable.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17790166093593432683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-63381156643417700332011-01-19T22:06:07.518-06:002011-01-19T22:06:07.518-06:00Indeed, I should stop picking individual words (&q...Indeed, I should stop picking individual words ("archaic" "contempt") and pulling them away from the main discussion.<br />Without any other evidence of this Anon (which you may have more of), however, I really didn't feel contempt for your work as a critic. Defensiveness, yes, but defensive of Anon's own uncritical fondness.<br /><br />On another note, I suppose I should credit the Scottish Reading Challenge as the impetus for the structuring of my current reading project.Sparkling Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899640164757220074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-58559325371776325312011-01-19T17:54:56.228-06:002011-01-19T17:54:56.228-06:00You're right, I should stop playing devil'...You're right, I should stop playing devil's advocate for a view I don't hold. That comment by A. Nonymous was truly irritating - the contempt was there, contempt for the act of criticism.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-36454608779628608242011-01-19T17:13:41.134-06:002011-01-19T17:13:41.134-06:00Contempt? Really?
With food, and with most books...Contempt? Really?<br /><br />With food, and with most books, I personally delve into the contemplation, but there is so much art of so many different kinds. Are my choices really only contemplate and critique or exhibit contempt?<br />I have always enjoyed orchestral concerts. I know very little about classical music. Knowledge, dicussion, and criticism would surely better show real appreciation, but is it really contemptible that I listen, enjoy, and devote no more thought to it?Sparkling Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899640164757220074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-28118410542833109132011-01-19T16:19:04.464-06:002011-01-19T16:19:04.464-06:00Are we just robots, mastication machines, eating f...Are we just robots, mastication machines, eating for fuel? Contemplate! Contemplate! Live!<br /><br />The behavior you describe is, at many restaurants, appropriate. At Charlie Trotter's, it's contempt.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-26565073362544021682011-01-19T15:55:49.240-06:002011-01-19T15:55:49.240-06:00We're in agreement that criticism can be an ac...We're in agreement that criticism can be an act of love and that failure to criticize can be an act of contempt, but I would argue that it certainly doesn't have to be.<br />Moving the argument to food (the one area in which I consider myself a real appreciationist). In criticizes, comparing and generally discussing, the Mister and I are demonstrating our love and appreciation for good food.<br />There are many people who eat at the same restaurants we do, always order the same things, come back and never compare contemplate or discuss.<br />I don't think they are exhibiting contempt for the chef's art.<br />I would guess anon. is much the same way with Trollope.Sparkling Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899640164757220074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-90036240007478415022011-01-18T14:49:02.127-06:002011-01-18T14:49:02.127-06:00What luck - he's a great writer to never be bo...What luck - he's a great writer to never be bored by. A lifetime of reading, right there in one author.<br /><br />Never is awfully strong, though. I have read a more or less boring book by Trollope, an abridgement of <i>North America</i>, but that's not fiction, so it counts differently. And even that book has it's more sparkly moments.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-82145599804148550452011-01-18T12:26:42.865-06:002011-01-18T12:26:42.865-06:00I'm never bored by Trollope. He is the single ...I'm never bored by Trollope. He is the single crucial author to read to learn about the mysterious way that changes in time and circumstance throw a whole new light on a person's virtues or vices.Shelleyhttp://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-82752065707842020642011-01-17T15:15:53.597-06:002011-01-17T15:15:53.597-06:00Criticism is an act of love. Failure to criticize...Criticism is an act of love. Failure to criticize is an act of contempt.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-3463017118448157222011-01-16T20:05:55.244-06:002011-01-16T20:05:55.244-06:00I am just finishing "The Prime Minister"...I am just finishing "The Prime Minister", which is the 32nd novel by Trollope I have read. I don't care if he is repetitious, wordy or even prolix, he always entertains me. I really (obviously) love his novels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-82657086641288205782011-01-16T16:14:14.548-06:002011-01-16T16:14:14.548-06:00Thanks, I had seen that, but some other commenters...Thanks, I had seen that, but some other commenters may not have had the foresight to put your blog in their RSS reader.<br /><br />I left a postmodern, but sincere, response.<br /><br />Summary: the third person omniscient narrator of Trollope's novels is not the actual Trollope, but a persona. How do we know that the <i>Autobiography</i> is not also in the voice of that persona?Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-91712290261046933982011-01-16T14:48:57.099-06:002011-01-16T14:48:57.099-06:00Here's my review of his view of his own life (...Here's my review of his view of his own life (if that makes sense...):<br /><br />http://bit.ly/fUbUajAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07546287562521628467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-35682927696671350442011-01-16T10:47:34.691-06:002011-01-16T10:47:34.691-06:00I haven't read enough Stein to have an opinion...I haven't read enough Stein to have an opinion. But, sure, repetition is just a tool or technique that can be used in more or less artistically interesting ways.<br /><br />Thanks for he amusing poem.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-5456379734762532322011-01-15T22:14:57.057-06:002011-01-15T22:14:57.057-06:00Hi Amateur:
I suppose you don’t like Gertrude Ste...Hi Amateur:<br /><br />I suppose you don’t like Gertrude Stein then? <br /><br />I would think that repetition in the interest of poetic tautologies would be acceptable. <br /><br /><i>A rose is a rose is a rose.</i><br /><br /><br />The above line is not only true; it will never have an identity problem.<br /><br />Actually,<br />of Anthony Trollope<br />I can only take a dollop <br />I’d rather read Joanna than him<br />I very much liked<br /><i>The Brass Dolphin.</i><br /><br /><b>Vin </b>Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-5442407468731024432011-01-15T17:17:01.973-06:002011-01-15T17:17:01.973-06:00Common, yes. But I don't see how there can al...Common, yes. But I don't see how there can always be as much as in <i>Barchester Towers</i>, which has as much of it as <i>Tom Jones</i>, just not as formally organized.<br /><br />I mean, he must run out, right? But one would think the same would be true of characters, plots, and proposal scenes as well.<br /><br />From the second paragraph of a Trollope I have not read:<br /><br />"The name [<i>Orley Farm</i>] might lead to the idea that new precepts were to be given, in the pleasant guise of a novel, as to cream-cheeses, pigs with small bones, wheat sown in drills, or artificial manure. No such aspirations are mine."Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-33441564452946304382011-01-15T16:25:37.831-06:002011-01-15T16:25:37.831-06:00I read a Trollope book once, many many years ago -...I read a Trollope book once, many many years ago - The Warden - and I shall never read one again. But is it the case, from your reading, that these kind of meta-fictional moments such as the ones you quote are common in his work?obookihttp://www.mjiles.com/obookispage/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-10080312872599953342011-01-15T13:42:22.777-06:002011-01-15T13:42:22.777-06:00The Salinger quotation is, in principle, admirable...The Salinger quotation is, in principle, admirable, and fits the spirit of Wuthering Expectations well. It just interferes with my narcissism.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-62605114763888652502011-01-15T11:38:56.522-06:002011-01-15T11:38:56.522-06:00Ack, sorry!Ack, sorry!Bookphiliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155882653615842141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-20792511534708497722011-01-14T22:02:43.531-06:002011-01-14T22:02:43.531-06:00Repetition in a serial novel is not artistically f...Repetition in a serial novel is not artistically forgivable, but it is at least explicable. In the three volume novel, I don't know. Trollope does a number of things to make the reader's life easier. Some work, some don't.<br /><br />But - a post I didn't write is about a brilliant bit of repetition. The beginning of Chapter 48 repeats the information from the end of Chapter 47 - c'mon, pal, I just read that! But Trollope is actually deliberately creating irritating delays to postpone the Proposal Scene. The repetition is just one of his tricks.<br /><br />So who knows.<br /><br />Now, that Salinger quote is an irritant. It clogs up my Google Alerts emails. I want to know if people are talking about <i>me</i>, not about some antique quotation.<br /><br />I did not know the quote. I wanted the Amateur tag to distinguish myself from Professionals - profs, authors, editors, bookstore owners, etc. People who make money (however little) from reading.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-58924752530998879452011-01-14T20:54:10.078-06:002011-01-14T20:54:10.078-06:00I found The Eustace Diamonds rather horribly repet...I found The Eustace Diamonds rather horribly repetitious in its explications of the protagonist's character flaws. It became quite tiresome. I think this one was also serialized, but still.<br /><br />Non-sequiter: Does your moniker Amateur Reader come from the dedication at the front of Salinger's Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenters and Seymour: An Introduction?Bookphiliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155882653615842141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-75475602924787159322011-01-14T17:25:41.064-06:002011-01-14T17:25:41.064-06:00About repetitions: I noticed quite a few in The Wa...About repetitions: I noticed quite a few in <i>The Way We Live Now</i> (the only Trollope I’ve read) and put it down to what he felt necessary in the serialization. If and when I get to later novels that weren’t serialized, I’ll have to note if they still appear.<br /><br />Regarding his complaint on compressing or extending, I was going to pun about his concern over novel ligation (since he was worried about tying his Trollopian tubes), but I’ll refrain. Oops, too late.Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13688525659034403580noreply@blogger.com