tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post7377064500333938248..comments2024-03-29T03:04:00.853-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: I’ve never heard of anything so insane! - let's get the Knut Hamsun Mysteries readalong movingAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-2599672550985873762014-11-02T15:54:31.364-06:002014-11-02T15:54:31.364-06:00Fiction allows the crazy writer to play with, bend...Fiction allows the crazy writer to play with, bend, question, mask himself with other kinds of crazy. Some of the crazy ideas in these first novels are, for example, ideas held by a younger Hamsun, since abandoned for different crazy ideas. Some are other people's crazy ideas mixed in, parodied, mocked.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-57845423381370385942014-11-02T14:00:28.301-06:002014-11-02T14:00:28.301-06:00Nagel as a "chaos seed" and your line ab...Nagel as a "chaos seed" and your line about that "ambiguity-multiplying technical outrageousness" at the end are really fine observations, Tom. I'm not sure why exactly--and would probably have to attribute some of this to what I've seen of Hamsun in photos and read of him in interview excerpts, not usually a wise move--but I'm not sure that our novelist and Nagel are all that far apart in craziness with a little artistry aside here and no empty violin case in tow there. The insanity seems too convincing to be a <em>total</em> put on, y'know?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-20992564787276195122014-11-02T13:43:09.225-06:002014-11-02T13:43:09.225-06:00"en gal" - plausible. More than plausib..."en gal" - plausible. More than plausible.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-4977195010889325472014-11-02T13:25:12.813-06:002014-11-02T13:25:12.813-06:00For what it's worth, I was taught in Norway th...For what it's worth, I was taught in Norway that Nagel was "en gal" slightly reconfigured, ie. "A crazy person". jeff househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03308802956949466073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-31730131942664108672014-11-01T13:50:29.515-05:002014-11-01T13:50:29.515-05:00I would say those are all too affectionate. In the...I would say those are all too affectionate. In theory, at least. They could be made sinister. Might need an actor rather than a writer.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-73521841524965345942014-11-01T03:17:21.359-05:002014-11-01T03:17:21.359-05:00Something like Half-pint? Squirt? Shrimp? Or there...Something like Half-pint? Squirt? Shrimp? Or there's a colloquial construction in Ireland where you put 'sen' at the end of a word to make a diminutive - manden, which is kind of affectionate rather than insulting.Séamus Dugganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00574186409184247059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-61680583288405172522014-10-31T22:41:46.952-05:002014-10-31T22:41:46.952-05:00My argument with Tiny is that it is already almost...My argument with Tiny is that it is already almost always used ironically. Tiny is always 6'10" and 300 pounds. Using it here ironizes the irony. I was also wondering about the possibility of "Big Guy."Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-24719679706589170452014-10-31T15:51:07.007-05:002014-10-31T15:51:07.007-05:00Titch is good (though reminiscent of Asterix comic...Titch is good (though reminiscent of Asterix comics). I thought maybe Tiny...?Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247515387599954817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-48639829893627343402014-10-29T23:40:49.095-05:002014-10-29T23:40:49.095-05:00No one in this household knew the word "titch...No one in this household knew the word "titch." What a great word!Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-38314345549966341022014-10-29T22:55:29.361-05:002014-10-29T22:55:29.361-05:00"Titch" or "Shorty" are obviou..."Titch" or "Shorty" are obvious colloquial alternatives, though that could be waht's wrong with them. Would they be the right words in nineteenth-century rural Norway?Roger Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012987757094423896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-48774718007484673612014-10-29T16:48:34.523-05:002014-10-29T16:48:34.523-05:00So cruel through its belittlement, not inherently ...So cruel through its belittlement, not inherently cruel. "Midget" is too deliberately cruel. Not that I have a better idea.<br /><br />Thanks for the help. Thanks for any future help. Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-26365925698063317312014-10-29T14:54:30.681-05:002014-10-29T14:54:30.681-05:00He's "Minutten" in Norwegian. It sou...He's "Minutten" in Norwegian. It sounds pretty cozy. One could translate it really terribly as "the minute", though I'm glad no one did. Not, I should add, to be confused with the time measurement. That would have been "Minuttet."<br /><br />He's described as "en uanselig mand, liten av vækst og ytterst fattig klædt; hans gang var så besværlig at den var påfaldende og alikevel kom han nokså hurtig avsted."<br />My artless translation, trying not to miss anything: "an insignificant man, short of stature and extremely poorly dressed; his gait was so strenuous that it was conspicuous, but he still got around fairly quickly." I should add: "Poorly" here meaning like a poor person, not necessarily in bad taste.<br /><br />It was my intention to be quite literal in my translation, but this just worked as a reminder that there really is no such thing.<br /><br />"[L]iten av vækst" would be the significant phrase in your discussion. "Small of growth" if we were to speak in translatese. It is a common phrase and is not necessarily something that would make people think of midgets.<br /><br />I've only read the first chapter, so I probably won't take part in this conversation, unfortunately. But I'll try to chime in if any context or issues of translation turn up.Øysteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11487028133514318640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-18177865699513812732014-10-29T14:10:54.322-05:002014-10-29T14:10:54.322-05:00My version has Pykk's quote exactly except for...My version has Pykk's quote exactly <i>except</i> for "rather short" in place of "small of stature." Curious that there is a little bit of stickiness there, a little problem to solve.<br /><br />But I think we all agree on the purpose of the nickname, all of us not making a film adaptation set in Holland.<br /><br />The last page - you know the kind of story that has a last page revelation that upends everything you thought you knew blah blah? Mostly idiotic but once in a while there's a clever one. <i>Mysteries</i> kind of has one of those, although I don't think it necessarily upends anything but rather adds another source of ambiguity. It is all so vague - maybe it reveals nothing at all.<br /><br />It's an amusing effect, anyways.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-83539782629491853362014-10-29T12:03:47.820-05:002014-10-29T12:03:47.820-05:00My copy calls him "Miniman" and introduc...My copy calls him "Miniman" and introduces him with "small of stature." "He was an insignificant-looking man, small of stature and very badly dressed." The origin of the nickname is the most important and telling thing about it: it comes from bullies, and a bully wants to humiliate the victim holistically. I agree that the Miniman name is distracting for Austin Powers reasons but I think it gets closer to the message of the bully. <i>Everything in you that might reflect manhood and strength, is miniature and contemptible.</i>Pykkhttp://pykk.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-29512094553367059282014-10-29T10:55:29.553-05:002014-10-29T10:55:29.553-05:00Sadly I couldn't find Project Gutenberg copy o...Sadly I couldn't find Project Gutenberg copy of the book and I didn't have time to track one down from the library and if I had I'm not sure I would have managed to read it. For now I will enjoy the book through your posts and be left to wonder about the last page.Stefaniehttp://somanybooksblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-79907558102277982652014-10-29T10:29:20.803-05:002014-10-29T10:29:20.803-05:00IIRC he's not that short, he just has to hobbl...IIRC he's not that short, he just has to hobble around because of his injuries. I took it as being a derisive name that was more about his total lack of importance and/or manliness than about his actual size. Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247515387599954817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-62775368553035258172014-10-29T09:34:41.933-05:002014-10-29T09:34:41.933-05:00Solves certain problems, doesn't it? You don&...Solves certain problems, doesn't it? You don't have the entire audience whispering to each other "Why did they call him a midget?"<br /><br />I like that they move the film to the Netherlands and add nudity. Very funny.<br /><br />In my translation, the Midget is "rather short" while Nagel "was below average in height."Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-68006553612754795142014-10-29T09:24:05.179-05:002014-10-29T09:24:05.179-05:00It's a long time since I read the book, but in...It's a long time since I read the book, but in the film version I watched recently (with Rutger Hauer and Sylvie Krystal, she of Emmanuelle fame), the midget was indeed a midget.obookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03885121629202810216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-6005386503762256352014-10-29T09:20:10.185-05:002014-10-29T09:20:10.185-05:00Nagel is a parody not of Christ but of Prince Mysh...Nagel is a parody not of Christ but of Prince Myshkin. That's what I plan to take 500 words to say.<br /><br />No idea about the Norwegian. Good question.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-85900573108607115992014-10-29T09:03:14.519-05:002014-10-29T09:03:14.519-05:00Anybody know what Miniman/Midget was in Norwegian?...Anybody know what Miniman/Midget was in Norwegian? I can't find the full text in the original online, though I can find plenty of others, just not that one.<br /><br />OK, "Christ-like Dostoevsky character" I can go for better than "near-parody of Christ."Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247515387599954817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-58460774621701262052014-10-29T08:37:32.815-05:002014-10-29T08:37:32.815-05:00Séamus, yes, I suspect "Miniman" will se...Séamus, yes, I suspect "Miniman" will seem all too ridiculous to readers who have seen certain movies.<br /><br />I wish I could tell you why I have never read <i>Miss Lonelyhearts</i>. <i>Wise Blood</i> is a good pick for a descendant. I'll write about the Dostoevsky stuff later today. That will cover as much of the narrator-as-Christ, or anti-Christ, or whatever he is, as I can handle.<br /><br />Miguel, Hamsun is one of the most appealing unappealing writers I know. There are not so many of those in the 19th century.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-35706636724467127612014-10-29T07:55:25.182-05:002014-10-29T07:55:25.182-05:00If I had the time and money, I'd join you! Ham...If I had the time and money, I'd join you! Hamsun sounds more and more appealing with each new post.LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-73130959317996545972014-10-29T06:18:51.490-05:002014-10-29T06:18:51.490-05:00Miniman seems a little too Austin Powers for me. I...Miniman seems a little too Austin Powers for me. I have been playing around with the whole metaphorical Christ thing in my head. I just found out over at Howling Frog that Nagel means nail which convinces me that this is 'a' right track.<br />I'm really glad I read it, it makes me want to read more Hamsun. The book seems to prefigure some of my favourite books, such as Miss Lonelyhearts and Wiseblood. Thanks for the push.Séamus Dugganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00574186409184247059noreply@blogger.com