tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post8226056188687279176..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: GriffinismAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-50687581002142889012011-10-17T13:48:58.419-05:002011-10-17T13:48:58.419-05:00Every artistic tradition will have different ideas...Every artistic tradition will have different ideas about originality and creativity. If I ignore Ruskin's own train of thought and follow the idea to the source, there should be some place, even in a quite rigid tradition, where this kind of free imagination should be possible.<br /><br />Plenty of Portuguese left. Tomorrow, even. Months of it, until we are all sick of it. <br /><br />CB - That's what's great about Ruskin's example, isn't it, that he picks a cleanly fantastic example.<br /><br />The false griffins are especially fun when you know how griffins are made, so to speak. Then we enjoy the clever rearrangements of the griffin-parts, of the clichés. This is partly why I was writing about genre fiction last week. The best mystery or romance or what have you cannot be truly original (or it is not in the genre anymore) so there has to be a fair amount of cliché-shuffling. But some "true" griffins will be in the book as well.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-4234208650459965002011-10-17T13:20:45.211-05:002011-10-17T13:20:45.211-05:00I think you and I are both looking for the same th...I think you and I are both looking for the same thing, when it comes to great books anyway. Though I enjoy a false griffin now and then, too. <br /><br />I like your notion of a book's "griffinsim." This is so often what separates good from bad in my mind. Whether a book depicts historical/reality based truth or fantastical/mythological truth it must be true to the imagination.<br /><br /> It's been a long time since I read any Ruskin, but maybe I"ll take a look as this article.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906212382849291562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-1697020661573709932011-10-17T13:11:17.915-05:002011-10-17T13:11:17.915-05:00Are you familiar at all with Persian art, and the ...Are you familiar at all with Persian art, and the struggle that happened between the Persian ideas of ideal forms against the Renaissance ideals of realistic portraits? To a Persian artist (before the 17th century), every depiction of a griffin should show a perfect, archtypal griffin rather than a particular griffin. So Ruskin's arguments would run counter to the aesthetic traditions of Persia. Hell, they'd behead him as a heretic, likely.<br /><br />It occurs to me that I don't know if any of those claims are historical fact; I realize I've accepted Orhan Pamuk's <i>My Name Is Red</i> as truth. He may have made it all up. But assuming he wasn't lying about his fictional Persian artists, I find it interesting (though likely predictable if I think about it for a minute) that my acceptance of Ruskin's argument is entirely cultural bias, and the strength of my agreement is based on my current concern about cliches in my own writing. So huh. More coffee.<br /><br />Are we finished with Portuguese novels? I haven't read <i>Illustrious House of Ramires</i> yet!<br /><br />~scott baileyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-39037177912774885112011-10-17T12:56:23.329-05:002011-10-17T12:56:23.329-05:00Now that it's fixed - thanks a lot! - I'll...Now that it's fixed - thanks a lot! - I'll add that Ruskin happily concedes that the stereotypical griffin is a well-made stereotype, and he even admires the use of the "back" wing, the way it is pulled forward behind the griffin's head, to fill the background.<br /><br />But it's still what you say, a stereotype, a variation on someone else's old idea.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-15597989004930111362011-10-17T12:51:38.509-05:002011-10-17T12:51:38.509-05:00Well that's sort of what I would call a major ...Well that's sort of what I would call a major error. Maybe I needed more coffee.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-46633860385999657592011-10-17T12:07:51.396-05:002011-10-17T12:07:51.396-05:00"The right-hand griffin, medieval griffin, th..."The right-hand griffin, medieval griffin, the “true” griffin, resides on the cathedral of Verona, while the “false” classical griffin on the left is from the Roman temple of Antoninus and Faustina."<br /><br />I am confused. Is the "true" griffin on the left or right? All of your arguments seem in reverse of the above-quoted sentence. Or do I just need more coffee this morning?<br /><br />Assuming the 'true' griffin is the one on the left, I must agree with Mr Ruskin. The one on the right is a stereotype while the one on the left is a distinct individual.<br /><br />~scott baileyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com