tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post8270955381199704676..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: I enjoyed the characters in A Tale of Two CitiesAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-43488609564955977912012-02-21T12:50:37.507-06:002012-02-21T12:50:37.507-06:00You are right, Darnay's beginning isn't ba...You are right, Darnay's beginning isn't bad. Then he genericizes. Then he gets hit on the head and exits the novel, an undignified end for a romantic hero. Fitting here, though. No one misses him.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-13106934053373428222012-02-21T11:38:00.443-06:002012-02-21T11:38:00.443-06:00Lol about the funny hat! I have just got round to ...Lol about the funny hat! I have just got round to reading this, and am really dsappointed about Darnay's lack of depth. It seemed to show such promise, too, in the drama of the courtroom scene. <br /><br />We are never given any access to his mental processes. Somone wrote somewhere that he is a like a machine who's been programmed to be noble, honourable, etc!<br /><br />Does he never have any self doubt? What does he finally think of Carton? It's all obscure...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-967096695503594962011-04-25T22:57:51.412-05:002011-04-25T22:57:51.412-05:00Trilling loved Little Dorritt? That explains some...Trilling loved Little Dorritt? That explains something - a Subject for Future Research. Thanks.<br /><br />I always assume - the evidence seems clear enough - that Dickens is aware of his problems, and is working on them. He does not attempt to solve every problem within every book, like Flaubert, but is experimenting <i>across</i> books. Heartening to hear the good news about the <i>Our Mutual Friend</i> heroines.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-69478802839832544392011-04-22T17:58:30.545-05:002011-04-22T17:58:30.545-05:00I don't share Lionel Trilling's crush on h...I don't share Lionel Trilling's crush on her, but Little Dorritt has her moments, and the heroines of <i>OMF</i> are among Dickens's best. As for the heroes of those two novels, CD tries hard to make them interesting. Irving Howe thought he succeeded, but YMMV . . .Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15914730499199048197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-44297833056683525492011-04-12T23:58:20.134-05:002011-04-12T23:58:20.134-05:00Oh yes, Esther is wonderful. It's the first p...Oh yes, Esther is wonderful. It's the first person narration, it makes all the difference. <br /><br />Edith Dombey is genuinely complex, too. Florence Dombey, the girl, the conventional heroine of <i>Dombey and Son</i>, has a promising start, but as she ages, as she becomes a romantic lead, she dulls, unfortunately. Edith Dombey becomes more interesting the more we get to know her.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-25944474225002176232011-04-12T23:25:57.288-05:002011-04-12T23:25:57.288-05:00I like Mrs. Dombey as a heroine. And Esther Summer...I like Mrs. Dombey as a heroine. And Esther Summerson.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00251983804060081813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-40732628248368056782011-04-12T22:27:02.977-05:002011-04-12T22:27:02.977-05:00CB - what? Today's literature is full of Litt...CB - what? Today's literature is full of Little Nell's. Sentimental stories about threatened children have hardly gone out of style. Or do you mean that today's bestsellers don't have bland characters? No, you can't mean that. They have almost nothing but.<br /><br />The boring virtuous heroes of Dickens resemble those of other, lesser novels of his day because everyone was imitating Walter Scott, who suffered from the exact same problem - vague center, brilliant perimeter. And in fact it goes back to earlier models, to the tradition of Fielding and Smollett. <br /><br />And Dickens is never thought of as just another bestseller, or a more skillful bestseller writer. He was a giant, almost immediately. Richard Stang's <i>The Theory of the Novel in England: 1850-1870</i> covers this material extremely well. The relevant essays in Rohan Maitzen's <a href="http://wutheringexpectations.blogspot.com/2010/05/lets-read-victorian-art-of-fiction-ed.html" rel="nofollow">anthology</a> are another good source. <br /><br />I'm puzzled by the comment that Mme Defarge can't do more than knit. She coordinates and inspires the entire French Revolution! She leads the attack on the Bastille! <br /><br />I have a story like Sparkling Squirrel's, except it involves music and meeting Wynton Marsalis. Same ending - an early lesson in human limitation, and the difference between professionals and amateurs.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-14856931991157034392011-04-12T21:55:09.394-05:002011-04-12T21:55:09.394-05:00I have not read ATofTC since I was in high school,...I have not read ATofTC since I was in high school, but it impressed me enough at the time that I still (20+ years later) count it among my favorite works of literature because it is so masterfully plotted.<br />My teacher, I recall, kept wanting us to notice the interesting minor characters (and did point out how silly and bland the official protagonists were) and I could sorta see how they were interesting, but it was the plot that filled me with despair. <br />I wanted to write fiction, specifically, I wanted to write great novels, and I realized immediately I could not plot anything like that.<br />This was weird, because in my high school hubris, I had a fairly high opinion of my ability to learn to do anything requiring thought. It was the plotting of ATofTC that awakened me to the notion that there was genius I just plain didn't have and never would.Sparkling Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899640164757220074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-2463315543762078502011-04-12T17:12:51.125-05:002011-04-12T17:12:51.125-05:00I wonder how much of our problem with Dicken's...I wonder how much of our problem with Dicken's heroes is a product of our time. In his day, characters as bland as Little Nell had legions of followers. It's difficult to imagine anyone taking her very seriously today. (I fear you'll find Little Dorrit a very close cousin to Little Nell.) Dickens heroes and heroines are all very close to those that could be found in bestselling fiction of his day.<br /><br />His 'minor' characters are where things come to life. While I agree Madame Defarge is a memorable person, I don't count her as a character. I think she falls short. It's easy to imagine a character like Francis Micawber having a life outside of the novel he inhabits. The same is true for many of Dicken's other non-heroes and non-heroines. But while Madame Defarge is impressive, it's difficult to see her ever doing much more than knitting.<br /><br />Of all his novels, I think Tale of Two Cities has the fewest 'characters.' But it certainly makes up for this in plot. Only Oliver Twist comes close, and it doesn't come that close.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906212382849291562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-53934249525767017182011-04-12T15:43:24.575-05:002011-04-12T15:43:24.575-05:00Yes, Shelley, I agree. If we to make two lists, Th...Yes, Shelley, I agree. If we to make two lists, The Flaws, Weaknesses, Foibles, and Failures of Dickens, and then another for Trollope, the Dickens list would be longer and contain more serious crimes against good literature. And yet, Dickens is clearly the greater writer, or at least has been seen as such ever since both men were alive.<br /><br />Colleen - yeah, I was afraid of that. I had a college prof, a Modernist, who once said, with a grimace "Nobody cares about Little Dorritt!" I remember that sentence, but not the context, not at all. We were reading Joyce or Graham Greene or something like that.<br /><br />I'll work on Mme Defarge a bit more tomorrow. Poking around the book, the whole thing is even weirder than I realized.<br /><br />The basic problem - and it's the same for <i>Wuthering Heights</i> or <i>Hedda Gabler</i> - is this misplaced "realism" filter, applied even when the author directly states that the character is an ogre or elf or troll or the like. Or, in the case of Mme Defarge, "Lucifer's wife." On the one hand, this is all metaphor; on the other, the entire novel is metaphor.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-45860211987905006642011-04-12T13:54:41.809-05:002011-04-12T13:54:41.809-05:00I'd give up hope on Dickensian heroines if Lit...I'd give up hope on Dickensian heroines if Little Dorrit and Our Mutual Friend are all you have left to bank on...<br /><br />But I like your take on Madame Defarge...say more?Bookphiliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155882653615842141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-61926849777141614892011-04-12T12:11:11.887-05:002011-04-12T12:11:11.887-05:00Poor Trollope, whose characters are so much more s...Poor Trollope, whose characters are so much more subtle and protean than Dickens'; Trollope's work is wonderful, and yet Dickens' work...glows.Shelleyhttp://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com