tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post909635046509327899..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: The eager, sensual mouths of women, the red lips, soft and moist - Zola describes thingsAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-9017493607480666152012-05-25T22:13:44.472-05:002012-05-25T22:13:44.472-05:00And what about Les Halles de Lyon, the gourmet mar...And what about Les Halles de Lyon, the gourmet market - that was also a pleasing place to visit.<br /><br />Thank you for the kind offer to meet. It might take several guesses to pick where we are going this summer (hint and also answer: Perpignan). Perhaps our route to it will take us through Lyon.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-84489059297189640132012-05-25T16:53:29.886-05:002012-05-25T16:53:29.886-05:00I like Lyon for the names of its neighbourhoods li...I like Lyon for the names of its neighbourhoods like Montchat, Montplaisir. It's nice.<br /><br />Markets are a great place to get fresh fruits and vegetables. <br /><br />PS: I don't know where you're going in France but email me if you'd like to meet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-47514805878678930482012-05-25T15:19:17.425-05:002012-05-25T15:19:17.425-05:00Come to think of it I have read a version of the H...Come to think of it I have read a version of the Huysman flower chapter since I have read <i>Dorian Gray</i>. I should read the real thing some time.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-65639758953191684302012-05-25T08:11:41.200-05:002012-05-25T08:11:41.200-05:00And I've read Huysmans, but not Zola... Most ...And I've read Huysmans, but not Zola... Most of "A Rebours" was apparently inspired by Robert de Montesquiou, including that poor tortoise; but I hadn't known there was a precedent for the flower chapter. Parody or imitation? Anyway, more overtones.Doug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-79573296487126490842012-05-24T23:14:33.348-05:002012-05-24T23:14:33.348-05:00I see. So a deliberate parody of some sort. I did...I see. So a deliberate parody of some sort. I did not notice a bejeweled tortoise in <i>The Kill</i>. (Am I thinking of the right book? - I haven't read Huysman).<br /><br />Honestly, if I did not know the timeline, based on the two Zola novels I have read I would think Zola was a "decadent" too.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-57024906108364616632012-05-24T23:05:41.326-05:002012-05-24T23:05:41.326-05:00Zola was Huysmans's mentor; and "A Rebour...Zola was Huysmans's mentor; and "A Rebours" was Huysmans's break with Naturalism. Zola didn't like it. That makes the question of the flowers more interesting -- to me, at any rate...Doug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77248376816868452122012-05-24T22:45:47.463-05:002012-05-24T22:45:47.463-05:00Good question. No way Huysman had not read it. T...Good question. No way Huysman had not read it. They were even pals by the time <i>A Rebours</i> was written.<br /><br />The passage does seem like a close relative of the later decadents, doesn't it? I am going to try to address this tomorrow, but at a kind of slant angle.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-74251272269178777922012-05-24T21:45:15.381-05:002012-05-24T21:45:15.381-05:00The plants remind me of Huysmans's disgusting ...The plants remind me of Huysmans's disgusting specimens in "A Rebours": flowers reminiscent of syphilis, wounded flesh, leprosy, etc. I wonder if Huysmans had Zola in mind?Doug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77033556122851881022012-05-24T17:21:36.260-05:002012-05-24T17:21:36.260-05:00Ah, yes! By weird coincidence, most of The Kill a...Ah, yes! By weird coincidence, most of <i>The Kill</i> actually takes place on the map I included in <a href="http://wutheringexpectations.blogspot.com/2012/01/sad-policemen-beamed-in-from-other.html" rel="nofollow">this Bolaño post</a>, in or on or next to that exact mansion.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-86573086587909364252012-05-24T13:56:13.934-05:002012-05-24T13:56:13.934-05:00I'm altogether late to commenting on your comm...I'm altogether late to commenting on your commenting on <i>The Kill</i> (which I read not long after the Goldhammer translation appeared), but have been following it with the same debauched delight I experienced when I read the novel ("...hideous excrescences, oozing with poison" seems to sum up <i>The Kill</i> itself pretty well). Oh, and I seem to recall mentioning this before, but the Musée Nissim de Camondo just off Parc Monceau in Paris struck me, when I visited it, as the perfect place for revisiting this novel in one's head.seraillonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654593356535433945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-39226510539241145132012-05-24T11:35:07.411-05:002012-05-24T11:35:07.411-05:00That chapter (and overall) trajectory you describe...That chapter (and overall) trajectory you describe fits <i>The Kill</i> perfectly.<br /><br />The heroine in this novel is sated by things, yet still yearns desperately for something else. What to do when you have bought everything already? She & Zola bring the consumer mentality to a state of crisis.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-91510672573959133392012-05-24T10:15:55.128-05:002012-05-24T10:15:55.128-05:00I feel that there is often a deterioration in Zola...I feel that there is often a deterioration in Zola's descriptions from their initial attempt to describe something lovely and charming (or 'smart' and 'enchanting') to something more powerful and worrisome underneath, sexuality, violence, malevolence, greed, something a person might lose their head's over. <br /><br />There's a similar sort of rhythm at play in Zola's chapters (at least in the books I've read and I haven't read this one) where often we begin with optimism and hope, before weltering once again in disaster or misery. And overall the trajectory of the narrative is one from ambition to its disappointment.<br /><br />Alas, I've never got as far as figuring out what I think this all means. But I would risk saying that Zola did understand the consumer mentality - that wanting things, which might seem good and positive, originates from, and may end up back in, something violent and ultimately self-defeating, a kind of over-reaching.<br /><br />Wonderful choices for quotes, AR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-44505677684685465682012-05-24T09:38:04.109-05:002012-05-24T09:38:04.109-05:00I'm hoping I'm over them now though, and w...I'm hoping I'm over them now though, and we can get back to the story. I imagine they are there to symbolise the super-abundant fertility of nature - the sheer animalism (plantism?) which Mouret's desperate religious doctrines aren't going to be able to withstand. - It's the sheer subtility of Zola's symbolism that amuses me.<br /><br />It's only really this novel that I've found his descriptions troubling - which, as I say, might just be because of my ignorance of plants (it's just a list of terms to me, I can't imagine any of it). The department store novel I enjoyed immensely.obookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03885121629202810216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-30452801789784102862012-05-24T08:55:40.499-05:002012-05-24T08:55:40.499-05:00I wonder how much I want them. It was startling t...I wonder how much I want them. It was startling to see that the entire hothouse description was only at most 4 pages long. It felt much longer after only a single page of nothing but tropical plants.<br /><br />The <i>Abbe Mouret</i> novel sounds insane. Useful, too - useful for demolishing any number of received ideas about Zola.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-15683218571535988932012-05-24T06:03:03.071-05:002012-05-24T06:03:03.071-05:00If it's descriptions of flowers you want, then...If it's descriptions of flowers you want, then you should really read The Sin of Abbe Mouret - it's got 50-100 pages of flower descriptions, with some trivial love story going on all the while in the background.obookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03885121629202810216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-9690827809278003282012-05-23T16:07:00.897-05:002012-05-23T16:07:00.897-05:00Yes, I did go to the Musée des Frères Lumière. It...Yes, I did go to the Musée des Frères Lumière. It was a bit of a pilgrimage, actually, a visit to a shrine.<br /><br />The restaurant scene is very impressive, and a tempting subject. Also perhaps a little easier to write about than those huge party scenes.<br /><br /><i>Le ventre de Paris</i> is next in the sequence, so I bet that will be my next Zola. The food and market aspect is irresistible. The markets may be my favorite part of France. Ah, fear I am a glutton.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-6735801396284485362012-05-23T15:50:55.375-05:002012-05-23T15:50:55.375-05:00This is funny, really.
Have you been to the Musée...This is funny, really. <br />Have you been to the Musée des Frères Lumière when you were in Lyon? The winter garden room is gorgeous. I saw it stuffed with all these exotic plants when I read this passage by Zola. I rather agree with you : the description of the plants is as wild as the actual greenery. <br /><br />I thought the descriptionof the Parisian night when Maxime takes Renee out very detailed and so precise I could picture the boulevards. <br /><br />Oh! And the descriptions of food in Le ventre de Paris. Incredible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com