tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post143467921765896827..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: H. G. Wells and writing about plotAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-83046542859985735792011-03-02T22:09:26.351-06:002011-03-02T22:09:26.351-06:00Good. We need a literary Syd Field.Good. We need a literary <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Field" rel="nofollow">Syd Field</a>.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-41376423250619508562011-03-02T17:55:08.896-06:002011-03-02T17:55:08.896-06:00her neighborhood has turned into the The Wire as d...<em>her neighborhood has turned into the The Wire as directed by Tarantino</em><br /><br />Too true...seems to have died down at this point, fortunately.<br /><br />But this:<br /><em>I wish more people would write about plot. I'd learn a lot.</em><br /><br />Well now, this is something to think about. I'm going to work on this.nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17532641082944082516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-72291994084395497502011-03-02T14:45:12.551-06:002011-03-02T14:45:12.551-06:00Outside of genre fiction, at least out in the worl...Outside of genre fiction, at least out in the world of Modernist fiction and its offshoots, there's an enormous amount of messing around with plot and story expectations. Metafictions, metafiction about metafictions.<br /><br />At the beginning of <i>Lolita</i>, Nabokov reveals the fate of every major and many minor characters, and does it in such a way that most readers never remember any of it, to the extent that they forget the entire section exists and misstate the first line of the novel!<br /><br />As Nana says, it's all just another tool for the writer to play with. Different tools give different results.<br /><br />In science fiction, or, to stick with what I know, a standard but hardly comprehensive set of classic science fiction novels, metafiction is quite rare. Maybe now there's more than there used to be? Recommendations? I know about Dick and Malzberg.<br /><br />Anyway, if it's a trend in literary fiction, it's an old one. Machado de Assis published <i>The Posthumous Memoirs of Bras Cubas</i>, title meant literally, way back in 1881.<br /><br />I thought those jokes about sequels were jokes about too-prevalent sequels! Not that they can't do more than one thing.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-29468015912918928042011-03-02T09:13:01.168-06:002011-03-02T09:13:01.168-06:00John Dies at the End (by "David Wong" wh...John Dies at the End (by "David Wong" who is himself fictional) is at least partially about plot. I think there's a trend with novels in which you know the main character dies (Skippy Dies? I haven't read it yet) that are about plot.<br /><br />And aren't the second, nonexistent Buckaroo Banzai movie and William Goldman's "sequel" to The Princess Bride supposedly entitled Buttercup's Baby kind of digs at the idea that plot is the thing?Jeannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374498643286099244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-61557375478190100352011-03-02T06:01:03.482-06:002011-03-02T06:01:03.482-06:00I agree with your assertion. And possibly I might ...I agree with your assertion. And possibly I might be one. Don't know yet. When I started reading novels, I hated stories written in the first person. Reason? I know that the narrator never died, else how would he/she be writing. Later, I came to appreciate the first person narrative.I also see what you talking about plot and coincidences. Characters easily pop up to meet a certain fate, create a scene and quickly vanishes... Your kind of reading is very intellectual, I must say. Thanks for discussing such topics always.ImageNationshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06021414643103601330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-26275265408382027782011-03-01T22:49:11.033-06:002011-03-01T22:49:11.033-06:00To be clear, Jenny - those books, books in those g...To be clear, Jenny - those books, books in those genres, all <i>have</i> plots. Does that mean they're <i>concerned with</i> or <i>about</i> plot?<br /><br />The story of most mysteries is determining the correct order of events of <i>another story</i>, the story that happened before the story we're reading, the story that created the mystery. The plot of the standard mystery is <i>about</i> plot.<br /><br />Is that true of science fiction, etc.? It's been a long time since I read <i>Have Space Suit</i>, but if the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_Space_Suit%E2%80%94Will_Travel" rel="nofollow">Wiki summary</a> is right this is not the example I would want to use. I see a lot more arbitrary nonsense than elegant solutions.<br /><br />obooki might mean something entirely different, and in any case, I'm likely quite wrong.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-4914795037149080652011-03-01T22:14:00.976-06:002011-03-01T22:14:00.976-06:00Sorry, that comment above was me.Sorry, that comment above was me.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00251983804060081813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-86710775002237845982011-03-01T22:13:05.114-06:002011-03-01T22:13:05.114-06:00I can think of a lot of exceptions to the notion t...I can think of a lot of exceptions to the notion that science fiction novels are useless at plot. Take Heinlein's Have Space Suit, Will Travel, for instance. Practically nothing but plot (the characters make it more fun, but the plot's the thing.) Same for several others of his pre-bloated-Stranger In a Strange Land novels. Connie Willis is another, contemporary author who does plot up a treat.<br /><br />Mysteries, as you say. Seafaring adventures. Westerns. (Romances? Not sure, I don't read those much.) Certainly horror novels. These are all about plot. Instead of being extraordinary characters in ordinary circumstances, they are ordinary people in dire circumstances.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422079718648023179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-33979081606937794502011-02-28T23:15:41.331-06:002011-02-28T23:15:41.331-06:00Oh yes - completely agree about the genre differen...Oh yes - completely agree about the genre differences. Someone should elaborate. Probably not me.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-1941670446032587292011-02-28T22:58:37.769-06:002011-02-28T22:58:37.769-06:00I am easily pleased, and Wells is outstanding in p...I am easily pleased, and Wells is outstanding in passages, in particular sentences. But then there are those <i>other</i> passages and sentences, and those narrators are draining. I had <i>The Invisible Man</i> checked out from the library with the <i>WotW</i> and <i>Moreau</i>, but I could not bring myself to read three Wells books in a row.<br /><br />The most exciting book I'm reading now is <i>The Stones of Venice</i>, a great mind unleashed on a great subject, even though long chunks of the book are extraordinarily tedious. <br /><br />I've been reading too many second-rate books. I see you just read <i>St. Petersburg</i> - I should start something like that. Recalibrate the scale.<br /><br />Kevin - I can only speak for myself, but I am too ignorant of Wharton and too ignorant of Freud. You need a Wharton & Freud specialist to stop by and stir up discussion. Don't expect anything from Nicole anytime soon - her neighborhood has turned into the <i>The Wire</i> as directed by Tarantino.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-15362115393186150852011-02-28T20:19:15.289-06:002011-02-28T20:19:15.289-06:00Good, I'm glad you find HG Wells dull: - I did...Good, I'm glad you find HG Wells dull: - I did wonder after your last post(s?).<br /><br />I might write up one or two things about plot on my blog some time; - it also seems to me something people "talk about", but never actually talk about.<br /><br />One observation: it's often said that "genre" novels are concerned with plot. I find this to be a deceit. I think "crime" novels are, in general, concerned with plot (that being their only focus), while Sci-Fi is largely concerned with "ideas" and is utterly, utterly useless at plot.obookihttp://www.mjiles.com/obookispage/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-30085461271198050562011-02-28T19:59:14.894-06:002011-02-28T19:59:14.894-06:00Ha!
This is my a-watched-plot-never-spoils, and i...Ha!<br /><br />This is my a-watched-plot-never-spoils, and it hasn't generated one bloody comment.<br /><br />Nor have I been properly Nicoled, i.e., credited by an academic for advancing Wharton scholarship.<br /><br />I have miles to go before I sleep.<br /><br />Apparently.<br /><br />Cheers!<br />KInterpolationshttp://interpolations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-71669358969688828712011-02-28T18:59:26.196-06:002011-02-28T18:59:26.196-06:00My ulterior motive - and I always have one - is th...My ulterior motive - and I always have one - is that I wish more people <i>would</i> write about plot. I'd learn a lot.<br /><br />You have a good week, too. Enjoy <a href="http://interpolations.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/edith-freud-sigmund-wharton/" rel="nofollow">Edith Freud</a>.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-42899000604406270762011-02-28T12:26:42.999-06:002011-02-28T12:26:42.999-06:00Hi AR, I really enjoyed this post. Thank you. Have...Hi AR, I really enjoyed this post. Thank you. Have a good week. Cheers, KevinInterpolationshttp://interpolations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com