tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post3231890179285640695..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: It's only poetic horror, isn't it, Eugene? - Shaw's CandidaAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-81529124964354006862012-09-23T14:42:35.117-05:002012-09-23T14:42:35.117-05:00At times a discussion arises in comments which is ...At times a discussion arises in comments which is so good that the host's best move is to stay out of it.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-53796042703689515572012-09-23T03:22:10.921-05:002012-09-23T03:22:10.921-05:00I did notice that Shakespeare gets the last word, ...I did notice that Shakespeare gets the last word, the final joke, in the puppet play. It seems like Shaw wants people to pay attention to living playwrights but still recognizes that Shakespeare will keep on talking no matter what living writers do. You can't silence Shakespeare. I get the feeling that Shaw wanted to be a great playwright but feared he wasn't one, and (as you maybe imply) didn't really see what it was to be truly great. I like Shaw, even in his ignorance. Or maybe because of it. As you say, it's sweet and complicated. I don't think he really *got* Shakespeare. I think old Bill was too complex, too messy and too full of disunity for Shaw. Sort of the way the 18th century German critics viewed Shakespeare. Maybe.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-77490050981932119782012-09-22T21:34:06.503-05:002012-09-22T21:34:06.503-05:00As you'll notice, Shakespeare gets the last wo...As you'll notice, Shakespeare gets the last word in the puppet play, as he snuffs out Shaw's candle. Since Shaw wrote it at 93, fully expecting it to be his last word, it's a sweet and complicated moment. (He started another play, but didn't finish it.)<br /><br />He also wrote an alternate fifth act to "Cymbeline," which is, if nothing else, a spirited bit of Shakespearean criticism. I'm not sure if he ever realized that Shakespeare's wildness, richness, and oddness were assets, not liabilities. Doug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-53311303507180434592012-09-21T20:52:57.683-05:002012-09-21T20:52:57.683-05:00The knock I would make against the play, if I had ...The knock I would make against the play, if I had any interest in going into it more, is that the point of it all seems trivial. But I have no complaints about everything that moved me along to the point.<br /><br />This is just another point that makes it a perfect actors' play. Actors rarely care about the overall meaning of the play. They just want good parts. This play has five of them. So let's put on a show!Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-5477489590817508672012-09-21T17:03:07.420-05:002012-09-21T17:03:07.420-05:00I like the Candida fragments; I might read this on...I like the <i>Candida</i> fragments; I might read this one. <br /><br />I had no idea about the puppet play. <i>Whaur's your Wullie Shaxper the noo?</i> It's quite the dustup and no mistaking. At least Lear keeps talking after Rob Roy has done with him. Which is maybe the point. Or part of the point.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-26332589719300432532012-09-21T16:23:03.009-05:002012-09-21T16:23:03.009-05:00See how you like the fragments of Candida I put up...See how you like the fragments of <i>Candida</i> I put up today.<br /><br />That puppet play Doug supplied is pretty rough on Shakespeare, although not entirely seriously.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-72752724571827423182012-09-21T12:59:32.628-05:002012-09-21T12:59:32.628-05:00It's funny, but Shaw could always be funny, ri...It's funny, but Shaw could always be funny, right? What he wasn't so often was subtle. Though I don't have a lot of exposure to him: just <i>Pygmalion</i> and <i>Major Barbara</i> and <i>Saint Joan</i> (which is funny and not subtle and ultimately pointless but still enjoyable; his comments about Socrates are spot on though I remember something unflattering about Shakespeare). I should read more Shaw. Maybe after <i>Fortunata and Jacinta</i>. We'll see.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-76693351353218000902012-09-21T11:31:49.098-05:002012-09-21T11:31:49.098-05:00Yes, it was a pretty bad category error, wasn'...Yes, it was a pretty bad category error, wasn't it? Any list of Shaw quotations will have some zingers as good as Wilde's.<br /><br />That puppet play is a heck of a thing. The Rob Roy puppet beheads the Macbeth puppet.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-63168854207198383692012-09-21T11:12:10.859-05:002012-09-21T11:12:10.859-05:00Interesting! I didn't know that Shaw was cons...Interesting! I didn't know that Shaw was considered humorless. In his own day, he had a reputation as a wit. He even had a clownish side, as in his puppet play where he battles Shakespeare.<br /><br />http://wikilivres.ca/wiki/Shakes_versus_ShavDoug Skinnerhttp://www.dougskinner.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-90106965143880679492012-09-21T08:56:28.304-05:002012-09-21T08:56:28.304-05:00That was the biggest surprise I took away from tha...That was the biggest surprise I took away from that Stanley Kauffmann interview - the variety within Shaw's work. In his pronouncements he can sound narrower than he really is. For example, he can tell jokes when he wants to.<br /><br />"[D]eal with colonial issues" - that was my fear of Shaw, exactly. Which issue does this play deal with? And is there then anything else I need to know? But that is obviously too narrow to do Shaw justice.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-27453796396918394372012-09-21T04:12:24.365-05:002012-09-21T04:12:24.365-05:00Not to long ago I read Shaw's John Bull's ...Not to long ago I read Shaw's John Bull's Other Ireland which Declan Kiberd says is his only play with any setting in Ireland and his only attempt to deal with colonial issues. It is about how The English invented their ideas of the Irish. I liked it a lot. I also read his Androcles and the Lion a couple of years ago and enjoyed it. Mel uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714473754458914681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-69754811469797093642012-09-21T03:31:41.539-05:002012-09-21T03:31:41.539-05:00Only know GBS from Pygmalion, and that's not a...Only know GBS from <i>Pygmalion,</i> and that's not a play I like a lot.<br /><br />But I liked the passage you quoted.LMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538873868140070018noreply@blogger.com