tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post410940356701973304..comments2024-03-27T16:48:21.039-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: Luis de Góngora's Solitudes, perhaps forming letters on the pellucid paper of the heavens Amateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-16768164788918933432013-11-11T22:22:06.377-06:002013-11-11T22:22:06.377-06:00So there is a third Solitude. Just a little delay...So there is a third Solitude. Just a little delayed.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-26409669989102034352013-11-11T10:57:55.277-06:002013-11-11T10:57:55.277-06:00Of the towering 20th Century Spanish poets, Lorca,...Of the towering 20th Century Spanish poets, Lorca, Jimenez, Alberti, Guillen, the less well known to the English readers is Rafael Alberti. This is unfortunate, Alberti is a poet of almost Nerudean diversity and richness. Anyways, many readers of Gongora's Solitudes miss how sexy and erotic Gongora's masterpiece is. Not so Alberti. Here is a little sample from his Third Solitude, Homage to Don Luis de Gongora (I've posted the Spanish original at certain Fictional Woods):<br /><br />Jealous nymphs and sweet (their arms,<br />twisted, both porch and diadem);<br />like dancing vestals' garlands<br />- from his youthfully curled,<br />thin tresses' emeralds<br />is hanging the sound and flight<br />of their free daring fruit,<br />the frosted forest or warped sky<br />of their silky backs<br />their traveling legs which,<br />Launches the hips<br />and gobbles up the feet's swift ice,<br />The traveler -their wild voices<br />narrowing the circle-<br />imprison, in unison, by turning,<br />faithful to their song, slow or fast.<br /><br />Chorus:<br /><br />Hostesses of summer,<br />of winter and dancing spring,<br />autumn's true guardians,<br />of the tropics and the cold<br />you will be the master or ours, at your will,<br /><br />If the to the air, fully stripped<br />of its linen prison, transfigured<br />into black onyx or marble, your beauty<br />remains, dark or bleached,<br />which our blood accelerates.<br /><br />Come, the Oreads,<br />Sirens of the woods, are calling out for you,<br />free forest youth, they feel like dying<br />because of their maidenheads,<br />into clearings and hollows gird you they desire.<br /><br />So much they wanted their circle's ring <br />adjusted to the pilgrim's<br />club, his fixed<br />fearful misaligned pillar,<br />that, with a signal from the wind, quickly,<br />their golden circle was torn, and yellow<br />with anger an unicorn, stripped,<br />long in pride and brightness <br />from his forehead's eternally north-pointing sword,<br />sparks on all fours, and on its mane,<br />a thousand tongues, electric waves,<br />blind coral the eyes, the branches<br />crashing and burning,<br />swiftly, came and declared <br />war on the nymphs' musical <br />secret gardens, who running,<br />came, to be converted into trees .<br /><br /><br />Celosas ninfas, dulces ya -los brazos,<br />portico y diadema retorcidos...Cleanthesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15363416290397892659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-36812920613117348422013-11-08T00:01:17.105-06:002013-11-08T00:01:17.105-06:00I know, the "spume" bit is great, in Eng...I know, the "spume" bit is great, in English and Spanish.<br /><br />Góngorans belong to a cult, basically. What they lack in numbers they make up in intensity.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-45768791847216477082013-11-07T23:18:49.341-06:002013-11-07T23:18:49.341-06:00Who would have thought that Góngora, in Castilian ...Who would have thought that Góngora, in Castilian or English, would have been such a comment traffic generator? Love that bit about "Fortune's theater" and the line about "mausoleums of short-lived spume." Pretty uplifting for such a depressing fellow!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-13623938068400010682013-11-07T17:06:06.952-06:002013-11-07T17:06:06.952-06:00Once you commit to an interpretation you sometimes...Once you commit to an interpretation you sometimes have to push it pretty far in this poem.<br /><br />It gets a little steamy there at the end.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-36624622879067038652013-11-07T16:33:46.002-06:002013-11-07T16:33:46.002-06:00Of course there are also many reasons to read thos...Of course there are also many reasons to read those lines in a different way than I suggested: the knots could be the marriage knots tied up by the god Hymen, or they could be a metaphor for sexual union's grasping and embracing:<br /><br />A link between the couple's necks,<br />Among the swarming of lewd loves, <br />Hymen was tying up with knots,<br />while in alternate turns invoking the god<br />the tender voice of candid country girls<br />the soft accents of country boys:<br />Come, Hymen [...]<br />let your yoke bind<br />their burning desire [...]<br />in the marriage of elms and vines<br />while the vine shoots Hercules crown <br />Bacchus grasps Hercules' Club.<br />Hymen Come, come; come, Hymen.<br /><br /><br />El lazo de ambos cuellos<br />entre un lascivo enjambre iba de amores<br />Himeneo anudando,<br />mientras invocan su deidad la alterna<br />de zagalejas candidas voz tierna<br />y de garzones este acento blando:<br />Ven, Himeneo [...]<br />vincule tu coyunda<br />a su ardiente deseo [...]<br />y -los olmos casando con las vides-<br />mientras coronan pampanos a Alcides<br />clava empuñe Lieo.<br />Ven Himeneo, ven; ven, Himeneo.Cleanthesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15363416290397892659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-88602113437358762072013-11-07T15:40:59.717-06:002013-11-07T15:40:59.717-06:00The problem with Gongora comes mostly in understan...<br />The problem with Gongora comes mostly in understanding what extended metaphor he's going for, as you so rightly explained. As I read it, Gongora's writing about the Moriae Clotho and Athropos, expressing a which that 'yours' be like Clotho spinning a long thread of life rather than like Athropos cutting it short. So, the Chorus is wishing the couple a long life, hence the request for a late dissolving of 'your' days at some point into a happy senescence. There's also a expressed wish for many children to come repeatedly every nine moons (an odd number, hence the odd moons). <br /><br />And these are mere throwaway lines: there is a reason why Quevedo and Gongora are considered the greatest poets of the Spanish language.Cleanthesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15363416290397892659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-54717446513689756952013-11-07T14:43:51.725-06:002013-11-07T14:43:51.725-06:00You went straight to a really hard passage (I, 810...You went straight to a really hard passage (I, 810-4). Grossman's version is entirely different, disagreeing on points of vocabulary and grammar. She has the days dissolving the knots, for example.<br /><br />The appearance of Lucina is a good example of the depth of the classical references. Juno in her role as goddess of childbirth, a footnote tells me. I did not know that one.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-9673544574020950182013-11-07T14:26:12.399-06:002013-11-07T14:26:12.399-06:00There are magical lines on them Solitudes:
Lie tu...There are magical lines on them Solitudes:<br /><br />Lie tus nudos ella, que los dias<br />disuelvan tarde en senectud dichosa;<br />y la que Juno es hoy a nuestra esposa,<br />casta Lucina -en lunas desiguales-<br />tantas veces repita sus umbrales.<br /><br />Let her spin your thread, may your days<br />in happy senescence late be dissolved;<br />and she who tends as Juno today to our wife,<br />chaste Lucina -in odd different moons -<br />so many times cross again her thresholds.Cleanthesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15363416290397892659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-60077377530857323842013-11-07T10:26:54.775-06:002013-11-07T10:26:54.775-06:00Very true. There are some dazzlers in the Eddas. ...Very true. There are some dazzlers in the Eddas. Help, footnote please!<br /><br />The poets and story-tellers have other purposes, and time keeps moving forward, so there are constraints, not to mention that the individual poet's inventiveness will eventually dry up, but the great insight is that there is no <i>logical</i> limit to poetic metaphor.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-46803782396753235972013-11-07T10:15:11.749-06:002013-11-07T10:15:11.749-06:00Borges, in the first chapter of that new Professor...Borges, in the first chapter of that new <i>Professor Borges: a Course in English Literature</i>, talks about ancient Scandinavians "creat[ing] metaphors out of metaphors by using successive combinations. Thus, if a ship was "sea-horse" and the sea was "gull's field" then a ship would be "horse of gull's field" ... This is how an extremely complicated and obscure poetry evolved." I read that yesterday and you've reminded me of it; this greedy, eating-up way of writing poetry. Umbagollahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556344092820711893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-60309201887982719772013-11-07T10:02:38.399-06:002013-11-07T10:02:38.399-06:00I had no idea the Picasso book existed, how intere...I had no idea the Picasso book existed, how interesting. This long <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books--picassos-poet-a-masterpiece-of-book-illustration-picassos-gongora-reflects-the-artists-lifelong-passion-both-for-writing-and-for-his-spanish-heritage-and-reveals-some-of-the-significant-influences-on-his-own-prolific-but-littleknown-literary-work-1392390.html" rel="nofollow">UK Independent</a> piece by John Golding puts Picasso's book in context.<br /><br />Góngora, like Donne, was revived by Modernist poets, that is the basic story.<br /><br />The Picasso book is all sonnets. There is a Góngora collection by Michael Smith from Anvil Press that does an outstanding job with the sonnets. Grossman's versions in <i>The Golden Age</i> are good, too. And then there is a recent collection from U of Chicago Press.<br /><br />For a poet who can't be translated, there has been a lot of good translation.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-71782021952933350672013-11-07T09:40:41.403-06:002013-11-07T09:40:41.403-06:00Grossman is such a fantastic translator. I will ha...Grossman is such a fantastic translator. I will have to look out for this one. Have you seen Picasso's artist's book on Gongora? It's gorgeous.Stefaniehttp://somanybooksblog.comnoreply@blogger.com