tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post4583146708080694309..comments2024-03-29T03:04:00.853-05:00Comments on Wuthering <br>Expectations: The life of happy and distinguished people was fashioned in their image - Henry James, against aestheticismAmateur Reader (Tom)http://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-43675661275315403662013-01-23T08:18:44.129-06:002013-01-23T08:18:44.129-06:00Right, A. Nonymous, we use what is outside of the ...Right, A. Nonymous, we use what is outside of the text to understand what is in the text. Word meanings change, etc. Now, take what you have got from outside and go back to the text.<br /><br />The character can be based on Claire Clairmont, yet not be Claire Clairmont. Can we assume the character had an affair and child with Lord Byron? Or does a fiction writer make changes, keeping some things and discarding others? What guide do we have to what was kept and what discarded? Just one.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-70170248039354627122013-01-23T05:05:35.646-06:002013-01-23T05:05:35.646-06:00Stick to the text with Henry James, where what isn...Stick to the text with Henry James, where what isn't in the text is so important? <br />A further complication- is James's preface, written about twenty years later than the story, which makes the reference to Claire Clairmont part of the text? If a writer lived over a hundred years ago is it possible to stick to the text- just the text- and understand themAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-51179839755471811942013-01-22T08:25:49.848-06:002013-01-22T08:25:49.848-06:00No, not more likely. Stick to the text, please! ...No, not more likely. Stick to the text, please! Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-70383586981466374292013-01-22T00:50:42.700-06:002013-01-22T00:50:42.700-06:00The Aspern Papers was based on Claire Clairmont, h...The Aspern Papers was based on Claire Clairmont, half-sister to Mary Shelley and mother of a daughter by Lord Byron which makes it more likely that Tina is- or could be- Juliana's niece.. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1996/apr/04/an-affair-to-remember/?pagination=falseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-32581894177335879902013-01-18T14:01:09.915-06:002013-01-18T14:01:09.915-06:00If I come across a copy of the book, I will look f...If I come across a copy of the book, I will look for James in the index.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-8156910890457119822013-01-18T12:02:26.873-06:002013-01-18T12:02:26.873-06:00Reviewed but not yet published, but seems relevsnt...Reviewed but not yet published, but seems relevsnt to the question of 'nieces' and nieces and aunts and 'aunts': http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryWorld/?view=usa&ci=9780199977802Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-57286014776230042742012-10-08T17:18:24.393-05:002012-10-08T17:18:24.393-05:00Thanks for the plug! Let's just say that I bel...Thanks for the plug! Let's just say that I believe in the power of foreshadowing and the weight of what's-not-said. <i>The Astrologer</i> is mostly just riffing on Shakespeare, though. I've read it too many times so now it all seems like surface. There is a good scene on a beach.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-13005624851733819822012-10-08T17:00:37.546-05:002012-10-08T17:00:37.546-05:00Scott, you are a born deconstructionist. Should I...Scott, you are a born deconstructionist. Should I be on the lookout for this sort of thing when your novel comes out? (<i>The Astrologer</i>, March 2013)<br /><br />It is likely wise, as A. Nonymous suggests, never to underestimate James's taste for uncertainty and complications. What is the figure in the carpet supposed to mean?Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-36914930254581831082012-10-08T16:22:02.401-05:002012-10-08T16:22:02.401-05:00James plants the seeds of the idea in the reader&#...James plants the seeds of the idea in the reader's mind when he has the narrator talk about how he imagines Juliana having had torrid love affairs. There is also no discussion anywhere in the story of Tina's parentage. Where are the missing mother and father? They're right there, already on the page.<br /><br />No papers at all! That <i>is</i> good.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-61277999735812710012012-10-08T14:37:04.693-05:002012-10-08T14:37:04.693-05:00'The latter argues that Tina is in fact Julian...'The latter argues that Tina is in fact Juliana's niece, and also the daughter of Aspern.'<br />Well, that's going a bit far. My own guess is that we are supposed to wonder whether Tina might be Juliana's and Aspern's daughter but not to be certain. That's only based on James's taste for uncertainty and complications though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-84484635951465547272012-10-08T12:36:11.348-05:002012-10-08T12:36:11.348-05:00Wagenknecht in the footnotes:
"Jacob Korg......Wagenknecht in the footnotes:<br /><br />"Jacob Korg... seems to stand alone in the view that there were no Aspern papers [ha ha ha, yes, outstanding!], but he pioneered the idea that Tina might be Juliana's daughter rather than her niece..."<br /><br />Relevant paper is "What Aspern Papers? A Hypothesis," <i>College English</i>, 1961-2.<br /><br />Later papers by Robert C. McLean and Constance Hunting develop the idea. The latter argues that Tina is in fact Juliana's niece, and <i>also</i> the daughter of Aspern. Good stuff!Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-82664313910915119992012-10-08T10:52:31.227-05:002012-10-08T10:52:31.227-05:00I want to be clear: I think Tina as the poet'...I want to be clear: I think Tina as the poet's daughter <i>improves</i> the story. But we need something in the text to attribute the idea to James.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-86881657791122567132012-10-08T10:17:40.783-05:002012-10-08T10:17:40.783-05:00He's no judge of the situation. His awareness ...He's no judge of the situation. His awareness is limited by his own duplicity and desire, and he assumes that <i>he's</i> the only liar in the villa.<br /><br />When I get the time, I'm going to dig through JSTOR and try to find contemporary reactions to the story.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-19301912533952679982012-10-08T08:34:08.317-05:002012-10-08T08:34:08.317-05:00What would a knowledgeable contemporary like the n...What would a knowledgeable contemporary like the narrator of the story think? Why doesn't he wonder?Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-66430254199528219152012-10-08T01:00:14.395-05:002012-10-08T01:00:14.395-05:00...except that the purpose of the exercise was to ......except that the purpose of the exercise was to conceal ths proportion of 'nieces' and nieces who lived abroad with their 'aunts' or aunts. Would a knowledgeable contemporary of James reading of an elderly single lady living with a niece have wondered more than we do?<br />I meant Suzanne Manet above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-82671926655654271082012-10-07T19:33:40.557-05:002012-10-07T19:33:40.557-05:00Now how to we resolve the question? Perhaps a tab...Now how to we resolve the question? Perhaps a table: the proportions of legitimate and illegitimate nieces who lived abroad with their American aunts. Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-34234856631327592562012-10-07T18:42:55.792-05:002012-10-07T18:42:55.792-05:00'Unless she is Aspern’s daughter, a wonderful ...'Unless she is Aspern’s daughter, a wonderful bit of irony with no support in the text'<br /><br />Concealing bastard children, as nephews [see Kipling's The Gardener] or neices or younger siblings [Camille Manet] or adopted children [Maud Gonne], happened quite often in the nineteenth century, so perhaps James felt ho more need to emphasise the point than he would havw done discussing a pope's nephew.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-86217455025553344602012-10-06T21:34:41.497-05:002012-10-06T21:34:41.497-05:00The Dover has James' introduction, which is we...The Dover has James' introduction, which is well worth reading. The Riverside has 40+ pages of notes at the end, but I haven't read them yet.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-86217925811535430302012-10-06T20:48:39.413-05:002012-10-06T20:48:39.413-05:00The Oxford & Penguin probably add 150 pages of...The Oxford & Penguin probably add 150 pages of notes and textual variants and so on. A copy of that Dover edition is in this house somewhere.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-89037361277596827042012-10-06T17:07:16.191-05:002012-10-06T17:07:16.191-05:00The Dover edition is just over 300 pages, and not ...The Dover edition is just over 300 pages, and not in tiny type, either. We have a 1960 Riverside edition that's 345 pages. But yes, it's late James, so the pages each count for two of anyone else's. But still. It's such a good book.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-21034910748050039692012-10-06T16:00:21.011-05:002012-10-06T16:00:21.011-05:00Have you seen The Ambassadors? It's so long. ...Have you seen <i>The Ambassadors</i>? It's so long. 500 pages or something. What's the matter with these novelists? Who would ever read that? Who has time? It's crazy.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-75718536000998265152012-10-05T22:14:48.011-05:002012-10-05T22:14:48.011-05:00I need to re-read 'Beltraffio.'
"Alt...I need to re-read 'Beltraffio.'<br /><br />"Altar of the Dead," yes, that's the very one. Tangential connection to the running theme you have going here.<br /><br />Excellent series of posts. Why haven't you read <i>The Ambassadors</i> yet?scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-19992096265871070162012-10-05T21:18:27.303-05:002012-10-05T21:18:27.303-05:00The author in "The Author of 'Beltraffio&...The author in "The Author of 'Beltraffio'" is allowed some speechifying by James, most of which is close to a paraphrase of parts of his seminal "The Art of Fiction" essay, which, hmm hmm hmm, was published in the same year. <br /><br />And the part that is not stolen from real-life James is exactly what you say, an attempt to talk the narrator down from the Romantic ledge. E.g., what you, youngster, see as perfection is agonizingly imperfect.<br /><br />I do not know that clearly relevant story. "The Altar of the Dead," I presume.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-78149209880716804472012-10-05T14:17:52.621-05:002012-10-05T14:17:52.621-05:00I don't know how James viewed the creative pro...I don't know how James viewed the creative process during the bulk of his career, but if you read the introduction to <i>The Ambassadors</i> you can see plainly that James saw writing as a lot of work, difficult work done by an individual focused on his craft and only able to approach his intended vision, not truly ever make it real in the world. There's no romanticism of art or artists there, or in any of the essays of his (that I've read) about writing fiction.<br /><br />It's also possible that James saw in himself all of these traits (I'll bet he'd call them weaknesses) and was mocking himself in these stories. There's a lot of mockery in James; some gently done and some less gently. Do you know the story about the old guy who sets up an altar to his dead friends? James treats a certain brand of religion there the in much the same way he treats worship of art in these stories.scott g.f.baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726743149139510832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3383938214852108244.post-43658078242000438142012-10-05T13:44:46.559-05:002012-10-05T13:44:46.559-05:00Himself - a plausible guess. It would not surpris...Himself - a plausible guess. It would not surprise if James had also run into these young, wide-eyed Paterians and post-pre-Raphaelites and thought something like "Yeah, I love art and beauty and all that too, but you guys are nuts!"Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.com